Information Links (most common answers)

UK SA Flyer Community Home Page: Click Here

UK resident doctors approved to issue S.A. Medicals Click Here

SA PPL Renewals/Types in the UK Click Here

UK CAA 'Bible' of Licensing Regulations Click Here

Question	Answer (No Liability - Answers given in good faith!)
1: Is my S.A. PPL legally valid in the UK?	If (unlikely) you mean in a S.A. registered aircraft, then all your privileges are valid. If, more likely, you mean in a UK 'G' registered aircraft, then providing your licence would be valid for the same flight if you were in South Africa and not the UK (eg: you intend to fly a 'type' you are qualified for, the licence has not expired, your medical is valid, etc etc), then it is automatically valid for general UK flying - the official line in our Air Navigation Order is that (my precis): "you can exercise the private privileges of your licence in 'G' registered aircraft unless those privileges include flying IFR in controlled airspace, in which case that is excluded, as is flying for any reward". If you want that in 'official-speak', at the time of writing there is an answer on our UK CAA site: click here.
2: Is my S.A. CPL/ATPL or instructor rating legally valid in the UK?	If (unlikely) you mean in a S.A. registered aircraft, then all your privileges are valid. If, more likely, you mean in a UK 'G' registered aircraft, then only the private privileges are valid, no instructing and no 'rewards' permitted so see Q1.
3: Why did I find one UK club saying I must convert my S.A. PPL to a European JAA PPL?	There are one or two rental organisations in the UK who do not realise that the answer to Q1 above is correct. Usually this is due to a standard misleading answer given by our UK CAA in the 1980s and early 1990s which might be when the club last asked. Since then CAA staff and policies have changed, and the answer is now very clear and publicised on their website (see Q1). This does not mean that your renter will just let you leap into an aircraft - all renters will want to assess your flying ability where-ever you learned or whatever licence you have -it's standard practice and it is their insurance excess they are risking by renting to you.
4: How do I convert my SA PPL to a European JAA licence?	Assuming you want to convert (many don't, but for some reasons why some do, see '5' below), see number 25 on Conversion Answer. Note your SA paperwork has to be valid at the time of conversion! (See 6 below). Whether you want an UK NPPL or a JAA PPL, you must not let your SA PPL expire before finishing conversion - your application for either a JAA PPL or NPPL requires a valid foreign licence at the time. To keep valid whilst you convert, you can contact Irv Lee on the main page. For more official wording, the UK CAA reference 'bible' for questions on licensing is called 'LASORS'. It is available in book form for about £10 plus P&P from the UK CAA but the sections are available online. See UK CAA LASORS index. You probably want to read JAA PPL Info,
5: If my SA PPL is valid, why would I want to convert to a European or UK licence?	Many do not convert, some keep both valid - you might want the UK/JAA licence in order to: 1: To add local UK ratings. eg: the IMC rating can go onto a JAA PPL. 2: To legally fly UK aircraft outside UK airspace without worry, which can be done on a JAA PPL. You could just ask the foreign authority to approve your trip using your SA PPL - they should be asked if you fly a UK registered aircraft in their airspace on any 'foreign' PPL (eg: SA, FAA, Australian, Canadian, etc). However, if you flew abroad on a SA PPL in a UK aircraft, and were challenged, (most likely after a serious incident you'd had), it is very likely that you would actually be legal anyway - the problem is proving it without months of worrying that you were wrong - and of course I can't guarantee 100% that you would win! The basic problem is two fold - (1) the SA PPL is ICAO compliant but it is not well known abroad and it doesn't say it ICAO compliant on the licence itself even thouhg it is. (2) The UK does not issue 'validation' paperwork to SA PPLs for UK aircraft as you have the legal right to fly UK aircraft anyway. Other countries always think 'no paerpwork, no rights' because ICAO conventions say validation paperwork should be issued to licence holders flying aircraft registered in a different country (eg: SA PPL, UK aircraft). In fact I understand the UK has filed a 'difference' to this and regulate it through our A.N.O. without issuing paperwork. So after a serious incident in a UK aircraft abroad with a SA PPL, I personally believe that if you knew what you were doing, you could prove you were legal, but I won't guarantee you are! By asking the foreign authority, you are avoiding the worry of whether you would win the argument and any time it would take to prove it. 3: You might have got the SA PPL with the intention of eventually getting a JAA commercial licence, so you learn at the cheaper SA rates and then hours build to the JAA starting point of 150 hours using your SA PPL,complete the JAA flight training for CPL and end up with a JAA commercial licence that way.
6: I need to renew my SA PPL - what do I need to do and do I have to return to S.A.?	You can return to S.A. of course but renewals for single engine aircraft up to 5700kg (and type changes) are available in the UK. E-mail for details or Irv Lee on the main page. You will need a current medical and usually 3 hours of pilot in command flight in the 12 months leading up to the renewal.
7: I fly with a club in the UK and they say they can convert me to a different type. Is that right?	Not unless they have an instructor with both JAA and SA authority (see above). The club will regularly deal with JAA licence holders (which are not 'type rated'), so the club thinks that just showing you how to fly a different type properly and signing your log book is good enough for a formal legal SA 'type conversion' (which it would be for an JAA licence holder), but this is not the case for SA PPLs who are properly type rated in the licence/log book. To get onto a new type, you CAN get the UK club to train you on the different 'type' to their satisfaction, as this can be counted as training (ie: you are not Pilot in Command), but once the club are happy you ALSO need the services of an SA instructor for sign off (including the ground exam and paperwork to Pretoria). If your club think you are legal on a type after they have converted you without proper SA paperwork, they'll learn otherwise if there is any incident or insurance claim! As well as a flight, SA Type conversions need a ground exam and paperwork registering with the SA CAA in Pretoria. Some 'types' are actually a number of slightly different aircraft, some are very specific. For example, surprisingly the C150, C152 and C172 are 3 different separate ratings and do not cover each other but a PA28-140 can cover a PA28-151 and more, depending on how it is done. If you have a PA28-140 type rating that is what it is - however, you could have been given a P28A type rating instead on this aircraft and that would be valid for other non-complex PA28s! The SA CAA keep a list of these on their website of ratings and any of the grouped type - the link will be given here shortly when I find it!
8: I fly in the UK on a UK CAA or JAA licence - I am going to S.A. for a vacation - can I validate my licence in the UK to fly there, or must I wait to arrive and validate there?	The validation process for you going to S.A. means a flight test and an SA Air Law exam and the paperwork to be issued. It is NOT a good idea to even think of trying to do the flight tests in the UK before you go - use the club you will be near, as you need to use the opportunity there to get used to the little differences and local habits, and tune your ear to a new accent on the radio. Some S.A. clubs are good at getting validation paperwork through very quickly if you prepare them with all the information and documents in advance. More help? The booklet 'SA on a PPL' was written for pilots from the UK intending to visit S. Africa. It contains practical advice plus the Air Law differences you need to know for passing Air Law down there and actually how 'behave' once flying! See item 1 on these products or the link at the bottom of this page.
9: I've decided to learn to fly in S. Africa but I see some schools mention 'JAR approved', others 'JAR Module' or 'JAR hours building' flying. What's the difference?	If you learn to fly in South Africa you will find there are currently no schools advertising training for a JAA licence. Other South African schools may advertise using words similar to "JAA CPL Modular School" or "JAA CPL Module Zero". These schools are basically saying that they will get you plenty of hours cheaply and quickly and unless you already have a licene, you'll get a SA PPL too, to allow you to meet the requirement for starting your JAA CPL course - but not with them. They cannot give you JAR training for the JAA PPL as they are not JAR approved, but they have noticed that in the if you really want a JAA Commecial licence via the JAA modular route, then to start the normal JAA-CPL flight course, the first pre-requirement is to have ANY PPL and you usually 150 hours of flying behind you - anywhere. So they use terms similar to 'JAA modular' or 'module zero' to mean 'if what you really want is a JAA CPL, we will get you to the starting point for your JAA-CPL flight courses'. If you are considering doing an SA CPL then coverting that to a JAA CPL, see question 10 below. So getting any sort of PPL (or arriving with a PPL and low hours) and then having fun by hours building up to 150 hours in S. Africa is a cheap and, perhaps to you even more important, a quick way to start the JAA-CPL flight course either back in the UK or somewhere approved for JAA-CPL. The savings doing the PPL and/or hours building in S. Africa (whichever PPL you get or already have) and then starting the JAA CPL course might even pay for the CPL course and it ought to be a much quicker way of progressing than trying to build 150 hours in UK weather. Hence the S.A. schools sometimes talk about offering the first JAA module or the pre-module - read this as 'structured hours building to save time and money'.
10: I want to learn in South Africa with the intention of later flying commercially in the UK. Should I get my SA CPL first then convert to a JAA CPL or get a SA PPL and then join the JAA route?	As usual, it depends on your circumstances - read (9) above which deals with getting a SA PPL, hours building and then starting the JAA CPL course, and compare it with carrying on to a SA CPL and then converting. (To fly commercially in the UK you will need JAA qualications - how you get them is your business!) The official UK CAA reference 'bible' for 'how to convert' is called 'LASORS'. It is available in book form for about £10 plus P&P from the UK CAA but the sections are available online. See UK CAA LASORS index. The section you should be reading for CPL is JAA CPL Info, and in particular section D1.5. Basically it is saying (my precis) that a SA CPL is convertible by: being assessed by a JAA ground training college for ground training needs and then after ground training then passing ALL JAA CPL ground exams. being assessed by a JAA Flight Training Organisation for flight training needs (and must have 5 hours on 'complex aircraft') and passing the CPL Flight Test. As part of the JAA CPL Flight test is visual navigation, it would seem sensible to actually log some real navigation around the UK before going for a flight assessment. If you just turn up for assessment without any, I would guess your FTO would mandate some, so why not do some, or ask any instructor to give you some 'getting used to the UK' visual Nav training across our countryside, MATZ, etc? That way you would pay normal instructor rates rather than CPL course rates and it may help your FTO's assessment. Irv Lee (see main home page) often does this sort of training with new SA PPLs arriving in the UK. Click here to see my explanation and costs for the 3 main routes to the JAA Flight Deck
11: What do I have to do to convert a SA Instrument Rating to a JAA one?	If you already have a JAA or UK ICAO licence, the UK CAA will give you an IMC rating just by applying and paying the fee. To get a JAA I/R you are assessed by the JAA flight college you choose and pass the normal I/R exams, BUT your minimum training is reduced to 15 hours flight training reduced from 50. At I/R rates, that's a lot of saving if you are assessed as only needing the 15. Click here to see my explanation and costs for the 3 main routes to the JAA Flight Deck
12: Reading the previous questions, I can get a JAA CPL and I/R by arriving back in the UK with a SA PPL (and some hours), doing the JAA CPL and I/R ground and flight courses, exams and tests with a SA PPL and never actually converting to JAA at the PPL stage, OR alternatvely I can get SA CPL and SA I/R and then convert.to JAA. Any idea of cost comparisons?	Well, obviously any answer to this is dependent on your skills, and the JAA college or training organistion you eventually choose. The costs quoted really are 'finger in the air', in sterling and you need to check the sense of them with your college(s). let's examine what would happen if you started the JAA route with a SA PPL and lots of hours against what would happen if you arrived bak inthe UK with a SA CPL and SA I/R: If you build to 150 hours with a PPL (doesn't matter where from) and then go for a JAA CPL you will first have to study for 9 JAA CPL ground examinations at an approved JAA college. There are 200 hours of ground study to be logged. At the end of the study, all the ground examinations must be passed. You will presumably pay a 'low four figure' sum for the college training to get to the point of sitting the CPL ground exams. If you get a SA CPL, as a returning SA CPL holder, you will have to pass exactly the same JAA CPL ground examinations as the other way, so the exam costs will be the same, but the mandatory 200 hours study time beforehand is removed. You will STILL need some ground study, but the amount will be assessed by your chosen JAA college and should be much less than a full course. It does depend on your personal assessment, but I'd guess you'd save a mid to high '3 figure' sum here - as you can see it depends on the college assessment. On the flying side, if you only had a PPL (of any sort), you will have to take a JAA CPL flight course of at least 25 mandated hours, and then pass the JAA CPL flight test. Costs for training would be 'mid 4 figure'. With a SA CPL, again, you will be assessed by the JAA flight school for what is necessary, rather than have mandated training. Presumably you would save a 'low 4 figure' sum here. You will still have to pass the CPL flight test, so cost on that would be the same. For the Instrument Rating, if you did not have a SA I/R, you will have JAA I/R ground exams and a minimum of 50 hours mandated flight training before the JAA I/R test, and presumably pay a very high 4 figure sum, or even reaching 5 figures. With a SA I/R already in your pocket, the difference will be that you have a minimum flight training requirement of only 15 hours, so I would hope that savings would be in the 'mid 4 figure' range. Again, you would have to actually pass the I/R test, so there would be no saving there. The costs of ground exams are usually '3 figures'. For flight tests, with complex aircraft hire too, you should be thinking 'high 3 figures' into '4 figures', especially if you get ever get a 'partial pass'. If you notice, the least saving is in the JAA CPL ground examination area. If you are actually looking at the airline flight deck for a career, consider missing out JAA CPL ground exams (and with that, abandoning the ground exam credit you would have) and go directly for the JAA ATPL ground examinations. They are harder, you don't get any credit towards them, but you would need them eventually anyway for the airline job. A SA ATPL would only be of great use if you had a lot of hours experience using it with the SA airlines. Click here to see my explanation and costs for the 3 main routes to the JAA Flight Deck
13: I have a particular SA flight school in mind - how do I know if it's the right one for me?	You'll only really know that for sure during or afterwards, as all countries have good schools, and all have at least one 'bad apple' so why should South Africa be unique in trying to pretend all schools are perfect for everyone? You must minimise the chances of finding a bad one by these general ideas: Try and find more than one ex-pupil for a reference. (If you only find one person, you might find someone who was actually a poor student and blames the school). You can obviously contact people on this website. Check forums using their search engines,especially the PPRUNE forum. (See bottom of this page for a link to it). Do a search for the School name or abbreviation. For example, if you were tempted to go to the fictional Ripuoff Flight Centre, it would be worth doing a search using a time period of 'last 12 months' for Ripuoff and perhaps the initials too. If you found nothing, it might even be worth an append yourself asking about your favoured place. Deal directly with the school and get their prices directly from them, not from anywhere else. Perosnally I wound never pay a penny to an agent - I'd deal directly and pay the school Pay nothing (or just a token amount of deposit) up front. Never pay for the whole course early whilst on it. Do not be tempted by large discounts for doing so.It might fair enough to be asked to keep a small amount in credit whilst you train, but you should be looking to pay as you go. If going to a JAA approved school outside JAA land, remember to ask specifically about the current and expected ratio between JAA students and JAA approved instructors. This can become very poor and almost impossible at times if the JAA ones move on to airline jobs and the school cannot use non-JAA local ones for your training.

Contact UK SA Flyer Community	E-mail is regularly monitored - please send to webmail at uksa.flyer.co.uk (but note this link is NOT 'clickable', in order to cut down the amount of junk mail from web scanning machines - please just type it into your e-mail). UK SA Flyer Community Home Page
Useful forums and discussions for the UK SA PPL	If you are looking for a forum for any reason, you could try: The Flyer Forum - probably the most popular G.A. site in the UK The PPRUNE African Section - Professional pilots with some G.A. Aviation Community in S.A - a S.A. based forum for G.A.

Other Services:

Help for UK pilots planning vacations in South Africa	"3 Products for your S. African Vacation" are now available for online purchase: SA On a PPL - summarising the points any UK based pilot needs to understand before arriving in South Africa for a vacation which involves some fun flying down there. "AVIMAP" - the SA Chart and Flight Guide Book "Pilot Destinations"- the Holiday Guide and Flight Guide to Lodges and Game Parks with airstrips
New Starters	If you are not a pilot yet and are new to 'G.A.', you probably want a very simple explanation of various terms and abbreviations you see (for example: 'G.A.' itself), try 'G.A. Abbreviations' or if you need clarification on training requirements, contact our 'rules and regs' expert, Glynis.
Click on the DVD to read more and order online!	New: DVD - Just what you've been waiting for...! You know you don't fly often enough, you know how rusty you feel! For 10 years I've been derusting pilots after lay-offs and most of them show the same mistakes, forget the same things, etc. This DVD can be watched before you go flying, and you can see (and recognise) the rust! Pre-flight planning tips too. If owning and watching this DVD can save you just 15 minutes of de-rusting time once at today's rental prices, it will more than worth it. Click on the DVD image to order securely online
Bookable Online, Click above for Details!	"PPL? It's a licence to learn...." So what do you suppose that means...? "You learn from your mistakes...." Well, that's NOT the way it has to be any more... Seminars in a "PPL Masterclass" style avoid many 'learn by mistakes' pitfalls rectify embedded confusion boost self confidence and safety meet like-minded flying companions - team up with local pilots for cheaper more relaxed flying. It's a day loved by UK pilots, but it's twice the value for ones trained abroad.
Order Online! Click the Yellow Image above	Pre- Preflight Checklist - as reviewed in Flyer, Pilot Magazine, International Flight Training, AOPA's Light Aviation and GASCO's Flight Safety Review? Click on the yellow front page icon here on the left! A "must" for anyone trained in S. Africa, and invaluable for UK pilots, students or old-timers!
	Site Owner - CV, Mentoring, JAR and NPPL Training, Retrining and tests, SA PPL Services, (renewals, intro tothe UK, Pre-CPL 'tightening', etc) Aviation Safety Products, FAQs, and NEW:DVD: Rust Remover for Pilots. All available via a click on banner on left to transfer.

Hits on the Site
Number of site hits: